{"id":10798,"date":"2022-06-03T13:13:00","date_gmt":"2022-06-03T03:13:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.homebrewradio.us\/blog\/2022\/06\/03\/phase-noise-and-all-that\/"},"modified":"2025-07-22T18:03:29","modified_gmt":"2025-07-22T08:03:29","slug":"phase-noise-and-all-that","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.homebrewradio.us\/blog\/2022\/06\/03\/phase-noise-and-all-that\/","title":{"rendered":"Phase Noise and all that"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture\" allowfullscreen=\"\" frameborder=\"0\" height=\"247\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/hfgaEjf1154?rel=0\" title=\"YouTube video player\" width=\"440\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p><b>Our friend Dave K8WPE has been listening to old podcasts. He recently came across those in which Pete and I were talking about phase noise. He asked for some resources on this topic. Here is what I sent him: <\/b><\/p>\n<p><b> Receiver performance expert Robert <span face=\"\"Helvetica Neue\", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif\" style=\"background-color: white; color: #1d2228;\">Sherwood explains it this way: <\/span><\/b><\/p>\n<div dir=\"ltr\" style=\"background-color: white; color: #1d2228; font-family: \"Helvetica Neue\", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;\"><i><b>Old radios (Collins, Drake, Hammarlund, National) used a VFO or PTO and crystal oscillators to tune the bands. Any noise in the local oscillator (LO) chain was minimal. When synthesized radios came along in the 70s, the LO had noise on it. It is caused by phase jitter in the circuit, and puts significant noise sidebands on the LO. This can mix with a strong signal outside the passband of the radio and put noise on top of the weak signal you are trying to copy. This is a significant problem in some cases: You have a neighboring ham close by, during Field Day when there are multiple transmitters at the same site, and certainly in a multi-multi contest station. You would like the number to be better that 130 dBc \/ Hz at 10 kHz. A non-synthesized radio, such as a Drake or Collins, has so little local oscillator noise the measurements were made closer-in between 2 and 5 kHz. <\/b><\/i><\/div>\n<div dir=\"ltr\" style=\"background-color: white;\"><span face=\"Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif\" style=\"color: #1d2228;\"><b><i><a href=\"http:\/\/www.sherweng.com\/documents\/TermsExplainedSherwoodTableofReceiverPerformance-RevF.pdf\">http:\/\/www.sherweng.com\/documents\/TermsExplainedSherwoodTableofReceiverPerformance-RevF.pdf<\/a><\/i><\/b><\/span><\/div>\n<div dir=\"ltr\" style=\"background-color: white;\">\n<div style=\"color: #1d2228; font-family: \"Helvetica Neue\", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;\"><b><br clear=\"none\" \/><\/b><\/div>\n<div dir=\"ltr\" style=\"color: #1d2228; font-family: \"Helvetica Neue\", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;\"><b>Rhode and Schwarz have a good oversight video with great graphs that explain the fundamentals, See above or here: <a class=\"yiv0559285280\" href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=hfgaEjf1154\" rel=\"nofollow noopener noreferrer\" shape=\"rect\" style=\"color: #196ad4;\" target=\"_blank\">https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=hfgaEjf1154<\/a> <\/b><\/div>\n<div dir=\"ltr\" style=\"color: #1d2228; font-family: \"Helvetica Neue\", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;\"><b><br clear=\"none\" \/><\/b><\/div>\n<div dir=\"ltr\" style=\"color: #1d2228; font-family: \"Helvetica Neue\", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;\"><b>I think a lot of the fretting about advanced receiver performance measurements are really kind of over-the-top, and mostly of interest to advanced builders who want the very best performance from their receivers. Most of the rest of us are happy if we can hear the band noise and separate the desired signals from the QRM. But I must admit that as time goes on, I find myself getting more and more finicky. I start to worry about gain distribution and dynamic range. But I don&#8217;t worry so much about phase noise because I am more of an LC oscillator guy and don&#8217;t make much use of the PLL devices (like the Si5351) that do produce more phase noise. <\/b><\/div>\n<div dir=\"ltr\" style=\"color: #1d2228; font-family: \"Helvetica Neue\", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;\"><\/div>\n<div dir=\"ltr\" style=\"color: #1d2228; font-family: \"Helvetica Neue\", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;\"><b>I&#8217;ve had many articles on the blog about about phase noise. Here they are: <\/b><\/div>\n<div dir=\"ltr\"><span style=\"color: #1d2228; font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/soldersmoke.blogspot.com\/search?q=%22phase+noise%22\"><b>https:\/\/soldersmoke.blogspot.com\/search?q=%22phase+noise%22<\/b><\/a><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Our friend Dave K8WPE has been listening to old podcasts. He recently came across those in which Pete and I were talking about phase noise. He asked for some resources on this topic. Here is what I sent him: Receiver performance expert Robert Sherwood explains it this way: Old radios (Collins, Drake, Hammarlund, National) used &hellip; <a href=\"https:\/\/www.homebrewradio.us\/blog\/2022\/06\/03\/phase-noise-and-all-that\/\" class=\"more-link\">Continue reading<span class=\"screen-reader-text\"> &#8220;Phase Noise and all that&#8221;<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[61,57,53],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-10798","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-si5351","category-superhet-receivers","category-vfo"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.homebrewradio.us\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/10798","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.homebrewradio.us\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.homebrewradio.us\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.homebrewradio.us\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.homebrewradio.us\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=10798"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/www.homebrewradio.us\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/10798\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":11383,"href":"https:\/\/www.homebrewradio.us\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/10798\/revisions\/11383"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.homebrewradio.us\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=10798"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.homebrewradio.us\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=10798"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.homebrewradio.us\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=10798"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}